Setting Stops
For some reason my data provider (eSignal) posts two hours of trading on holidays. I ignore this extra data (which plays havoc with my trendlines), and will sometimes start my Fib measurements with the day’s open. That was the case today.
Over the weekend Steve asked some questions in comments about initial protective stops, so I’ll use today’s setups to illustrate my answers. First, I always set an immediate hard stop. Where I place the stop will be determined by previous market action.
I prefer using pivots, but will sometimes use the cross of a moving average. Once in a while I’ll use the reversal of the entry bar as an exit. If I can’t find a logical stop that I like, I’ll pass the trade. If the stop would be more than two points from my entry, I will probably pass the trade.
Because of the extra holiday data, I wouldn’t even be looking for a trade near the open. The first clear setup would have been the short entry at today’s high. Price completed an A-B-C with the “C” leg being 62% the length of “A.” A second indication was that a reversal there would form a divergence with the Stochastic oscillator. And you could see that if the trade triggered (first red bar) the setup would turn into a Spring.
I’ll be using the colored Dunnigan bars to explain the entry and stop level so you might want to follow that link first. As we hit the high of the day at a precise “C=62%” the top bar was colored green.
I like the Dunnigan colors, because in real time I can tell when a signal is given. As soon as price extends below the previous bar, the color will turn to red. That is my entry signal (usually executed by way of a stop.)
In this case that top green bar has a range of 0.70. If my entry is one tick below the top bar and my stop is one tick above it, the risk is 0.90 — well below my maximum of two points. The entry in this case would have been 839.60.
What followed was a nice drop with a sequence of red or magenta bars. That means that no bar made a higher high. Assuming you exited at the first change to green (835.60) that would be a four point profit. (I’m not recommending that as a specific exit technique, but there is certainly no reason to exit earlier.)
The 50% pullback to “B” turned exactly at the white parallel trendline (drawn as soon as the pivot at “A” was complete.) An entry at this point would be handled exactly the same as the first trade. The first down bar turned red at 836.70 after touching the 50% level and the trendline. The stop would go above the pivot at 837.50 for a risk of 0.80.
Because the market acted as though it was creating a double bottom, I probably would have exited this time on the first hint of green for a small gain (1.90.) The first trade had a Reward/Risk ratio of 4 to 1. The second about 2.4 to 1. A question I often receive is what is my minimum R/R ratio.
I hate to break the news, but I have no way of predicting how far a move will go. Sometimes trades fail (all too often.) Sometimes a Spring will move to twice risk. Sometimes it will be a larger reversal and produce ten times risk. Some of my patterns have clear minimum targets, but many do not. The actual reward depends more upon your exit technique, and that is possibly the most difficult part of trading.
When I take a position, I’ve looked carefully at the trading environment — how far away is support, what pattern am I trading, etc. I won’t take a trade unless I think there is reasonable room for profit that is larger than my risk. My risk is the only thing I can calculate in advance.
Much of the reward in a trade comes from your trade management. An excellent setup preceding a good move can either make or lose money depending upon your trading style, regardless of what you perceive as the potential reward. The last trade of the day provides a good example.
The correction from today’s high made a nice A-B-C pattern with “C” turning at 62% of “A.” This setup often occurs at a reversal. “C” was also an exact 127% external retracement of the “A” to “B” move, which also occurs at reversals. The bottom was a 50% retracement on a 15 minute chart. A perfect signal, complete with a Stochastic divergence.
Anyone using my entry techniques on that setup, provided they also leave their stop at the original pivot, would have made over four points on the last move of the day. I would have lost money on that trade. The first pullback was too large and my trailing stop would have created a loss.
But that’s just my trading style. Everyone has to develop their own style — one they are comfortable with. I feel that a key to successful trading is being able to take the trades you like without hesitation. And you can only do that if the “rules” you follow are your own.
Thanks Lowell
That was a fabulous post – very concrete and very helpful.
I have a couple of questions for clarification.
Just before day’s high there is a green bar (8:33 Pacific?) with a high of 840.00, which is two ticks past the prior high. The bar closed six ticks lower and I thought the spring had already happened (I had no clue what the trigger should be, so there was no trade.) While the next (magenta) bar was printing, would you have had a sell stop waiting, one tick under the green bar at 839.00?
The second question is about the buy setup at Yellow C. I also saw that one in real time but lacked a trigger. Would the entry have been a stop at 834.90, triggered by the blue Dunnigan bar? And would the stop have been one tick under the last red bar at 833.60?
Steve,
For the top entry — yes. I would have the entry stop 1 tick below the green 8:33 bar. At that time we had not completed the 62% extension, and there was also a potential 127% external retracement near that level. (We didn’t quite get to the 127%.) If we had already hit those levels I would have placed the stop under the magenta bar and would have been stopped in on the blue bar. Of course that would have been a losing trade and required a second entry, and I’m not very good at second entries. :>)
For the entry at Yellow C — Yes, I would have used the blue bar as an entry, perhaps even as it passed the final magenta bar since there were so many signals.
Something I’ve been considering for a while is using a wider stop (leaving stop at pivot) when bottom reversals are confirmed by a strong divergence. These seem to often have larger pullbacks (this one was 89%). This is still on my “just watching” list. It would have been a losing trade for me.
Lowell